SPEAKERS
Dr Megan Robertson, Tam Nguyen
Welcome to Country 00:00
We acknowledge the traditional Aboriginal owners of country throughout Victoria, Australia, and their ongoing connection to this land. We pay our respects to their culture, and their Elders past, present, and future.
Dr Megan Robertson 00:13
Hello, everyone, and welcome to Global Victoria Healthtech Talks, a show that's about health tech business and opportunities in Melbourne and across Victoria in Australia. Victoria has a unique and globally competitive healthtech ecosystem. That thriving and open for business in this podcast series will provide insights into the strengths within our ecosystem that are attracting global attention. Want to explore the expertise, engage with experts, identify markets or learn about how you can team up with top Aussie healthtech companies, then you're in the right place. I'm your host, Dr. Megan Robertson, and today on Global Victoria Healthtech Talks, we're covering the fascinating topic of clinical trials.
My guest today is my good friend and colleague, Associate Professor Tam Nguyen. Tam has a background in biomedical engineering with a PhD and an MBA, and he works alongside me as Deputy Director of Research at St. Vincent's Hospital Melbourne. He holds several academic appointments at associated universities, including being an Associate Professor at the Melbourne Medical School at Melbourne University, and Adjunct Associate Professor at both Monash Medical School, and the RMIT College of Science for Engineering and Health. Tam has over 20 years of experience working in the healthcare, health and medical research and research management sector, including tertiary teaching hospitals, medical research institutes and universities across Australia. As Deputy Director of Research at St. Vincent's Hospital Melbourne, Tam is responsible for research strategy, research, development, innovation, and clinical trials. He leads a dynamic team dedicated to providing strategic and innovative solutions to facilitate health and medical research. His team led the sector initiative building the Victorian Clinical Trials Gateway web portal, which is supported by the Victorian Government. Thanks for joining me today. Tam.
Tam Nguyen 02:39
Hi Megan. Hi, listener, great to be here. And we're definitely going to talk a bit more on the Clinical Trial Gateway as we go through this discussion.
Dr Megan Robertson 02:49
Thank you. Now, tell me about clinical trials in Victoria. You're deeply embedded in clinical trials at St. Vincent's Hospital, Melbourne and collaborative trials across Melbourne. Why should people come to Australia and come to Melbourne in particular, to undertake clinical trials?
Tam Nguyen 03:07
Well, Victoria is the place to be for clinical trials, really, I mean, it's we've got a very, I guess, very deep ecosystem very supported, in many different ways. So when early stage company coming to a new destination to look at running clinical trials, they want to make sure that being early stage, it's about the time, timing, the speed, but as well as the cost, the cost and the quality. And we can go through a bit more details in terms of what each of that components that make company coming in wanting to come to Victoria to run trials. And certainly, you know, the company that I get to talk to me, whether it's in person at BIO, AusMedtech, or AusBiotech conferences here, but also oversee, and the last two years been online, but nevertheless, we still getting people coming across here.
Dr Megan Robertson 04:03
So tell me a bit of background about the health system in Australia. We have a very high quality health care manned by people with exceptional education and background.
Tam Nguyen 04:16
I mean, absolutely, we've got a pretty decent health care system in both public and private that health and medical research been supported and encouraged. And so, you know, principal investigator (PIs) and key opinion leaders (KOLs), highly regarded on a global stage as well. And so, company coming through to Victoria to run trials not only getting access to all the benefits I mentioned, but also working with a very, I suppose, well trained well educated workforce, PIs and KOLs that can actually support their trial running smoothly and and also other added benefit as we're working with these key opinion leader that is globally ranked.
Dr Megan Robertson 05:06
Now, you mentioned speed of startup that's always very important for clinical trials. What makes the speed of startup in Australia so competitive?
Tam Nguyen 05:15
Yeah, I mean, it's one of the things you start off a trial, with research ethics, the ethics submission or oversee what we call IRB where, there is a national mutual acceptance means that you only need to go through one ethics committee that can review and approve for public site, private site. So St. Vincents in Melbourne is one, one of those ethics committee. And there's clear KPIs and actually getting the ethics review and approve for multi-site, certainly with us, and there's other ethics committee as well. But we have a valet service where it's getting that sort of really the timeline down to 30 days, 30 calendar days from the submission to final outcome. Because remember, for a startup time is critical time is money, and so getting things done in that timely fashion means that they can actually get on with their work. But also the, the support as well the ecosystem in terms of ethics, it's been recognised by other sites, as well.
Dr Megan Robertson 06:27
Yeah, so the benefit of only having to go through one ethics committee is, is really a major, major incentive, and it speeds up the process enormously. Now, I suppose the other big thing that people may not be aware of is that there is no IND required to start your trial in Australia. So how does the TGA accreditation or notification work?
Tam Nguyen 06:49
Yeah, so so basically, the ethics committee review and provide that approval which then the company can notify the TGA through a CTN, a clinical trial notification system, that saying that this trial is has been ethically approved and ready to run trial. And people can submit it online, and you get an answer within a couple of business day, and you're ready to go, you know, to start your trial.
Dr Megan Robertson 07:17
Fabulous. Now, what about early phase trials in Australia? And Melbourne, do we do much in the way of early phase phase one first demand clinical trials?
07:26
Absolutely, there's a lot of centre and an actual fact in healthy volunteers as well. So that's very early phase where so we do have a couple of we have Nucleus Network here based in Victoria. But there's other phase one elsewhere in the country as well. So definitely there's a whole ecosystem supporting from running your trial in healthy volunteers and then move on to first-in- patient so a lot of the tertiary hospital such as St. Vincent's but there's also I suppose, other tertiary hospital Royal Melbourne, the Alfred and so on, so forth, run that early phase trial as well. And with some instance we cover, you know, drugs, devices, digital and diagnostic as well. So it's broad range.
Dr Megan Robertson 08:15
Victoria is home to exceptionally high quality research and facilities including 150 public and 161 private hospitals, where clinical trials can be conducted. So one of the strengths in Melbourne's health system is the coordinated comprehensive cancer centers. So certainly I know at St. Vincent's in hematology, for example, 70% of our patients are on a clinical trial. And a large number of those are early phase trials, phase one, B or two. And similarly with Peter Mac, and we have the Victorian Comprehensive Cancer Consortium (VCCC). So they're very well linked in.
Tam Nguyen 09:18
Oh, absolutely. And reaching out to the regional part of Victoria as well. But But I guess for the listener from overseas, especially from the US, the VCCC, that Megan was referring to, I used to sit on the research advisory council. The centre itself actually was opened by Joe Biden, in his role as VP at the time and, you know, it's quite sort of impressive. The centre itself, the collaboration, the networking means really focusing purely on you know, patient outcome. And so there's a lot of support for that as well.
Dr Megan Robertson 09:54
Now, you mentioned that St. Vincent's does drugs, devices, diagnostics and digital
Tam Nguyen 10:01
Yes.
Dr Megan Robertson 10:01
Which is pretty much the same across most of the tertiary centres. But St. Vincent's has a particular bioengineering capacity.
Tam Nguyen 10:09
Yes.
Dr Megan Robertson 10:10
Tell us a little bit about that.
Tam Nguyen 10:11
Sure. So so that's the Aikenhead Centre for Medical Discovery (ACMD), which is supported by the state government, but also a federal government. It's a bioengineering facility embedded at the hospital. So at St Vincent's. And that's kind of the hotbed where clinicians, doctors, surgeons, working with scientists engineer, focusing on bioengineering, medical devices, implantables, you know, bringing sort of better health outcome for patients and definitely, that create opportunity for early stage company to get involved as well. So we've got industry partners, but also early stage company been encouraged to to work across, you know, without conditions and we actually had a couple of spin out from our conditions in that space as well. So the like Seer Medical, and a few other company as well.
Dr Megan Robertson 11:06
When we're talking about drug trials, Melbourne is known for having a very strong and cohesive sector, with strong links between industry, academia, and the health services where we get access to patients for clinical trials. In medical devices and diagnostics, it's much more important to have strong links with the engineering sector, product development and manufacturing. We have a very interesting group of design companies in Melbourne, who really have global impact. Tell me a little bit about those.
Tam Nguyen 11:36
Sure. So couldn't agree more. It's for medical device and medtech company coming across a running trial. But also they want to make sure that their manufacturing, the design of their device is actually up to scratch the ISO international standards. So there are a number of groups out there. So Planet Innovation, Hydrix, DNI, Grey Innovation. And the one at St. Vincent's is Neo-Bionica, which is a new manufacturing actually product development as well, which is a partnership between the Bionics Institute, which is on site at St. Vincent's but that's the collaboration between us and and the St. Vincent's and the Bionics Institute. And what you get is that support of the product design, product development, and for listener who's not aware, in Victoria, we were proud to say that we're the only state that has both the bionic ears and the bionics eye. So that's that, pretty impressive. And so that stem our from that service stem out from the Bionics Institute, at St. Vincent's campus.
Dr Megan Robertson 12:51
So that's another thing that we in the sector, Melbourne has a large number of highly ranked, independent medical research institutes that are often co-located and work closely with the health services, but also have strong links into the universities. And that enables us to have a highly educated and skilled workforce, that are really interested in driving not only innovation, but also clinical trials and translation, actually getting into that implementation phase of development.
Tam Nguyen 13:22
I mean, absolutely, I mean, on the drug side, you know, you got the Walter Eliza Hall Institute (WEHI), which is based on the Parkview campus, the oldest medical research institute in Australia, probably one of the most well funded one as well. With devices, you know, you've got the Monash Heart Hospital, which is linked to the Monash Institute of Medical Engineering and the university. At St. Vincent's, the ACMD link with, you know, a number of university including Melbourne University, so that ecosystem they're supporting, because that that's quite important. You're driving, you know, product development, R&D research, through the trials, but you do need the workforce, that's where the link with university coming through, whether it's through, you know, the manpower to support research, PhD students, and so forth. So, again, we're quite fortunate in having that whole ecosystem being supported, and definitely with the support from the state government as well. I think that's make a huge difference. So mentioning the Walter and Eliza Hall Institute, I can't let that go by without saying of course, the WEHI as its locally known, is the home of the initial research that led to the development of Venetoclax and also the home of the discovery of the colony stimulating factors. So GM CSF and GCSF, which have totally transformed healthcare over many years. So there are really important it's a strong research capability that is built upon yes across Melbourne.
Dr Megan Robertson 15:02
Victoria boasts one of the world's most ethnically diverse populations, allowing for a very diverse participant recruitment pool. So we've talked about how good Melbourne is, as an environment and a sector in which to run clinical trials. How about once you get through your startup, recruitment. What about our patient populations? We have a very diverse ethnic population. But how engaged are they in clinical trials and clinical research?
Tam Nguyen 15:48
That's a great point, actually, because we were talking about, you know, fast startup, and most of the time, it's stuck at the recruitment level. In Victoria, for those of you not aware, we're probably the second largest state in terms of population wise, just over 5 million people. And there's that quite diverse population, being a multicultural country. But in terms of recruitment, because of all of the medical research institute, hospitals who are very active in clinical research, you can get a lot of that strength in consumer and community engagement, people are actually aware of what's been involved in trials, and so on, so forth. And one, you know, sort of might not agree, but the COVID pandemic, actually making a lot of awareness from the community, what what's involved in a trial, so that's more on the drug side, but in the devices, there's various group, including us, at St. Vincent's where we actively engage with our consumer and community talk about what's involved in clinical trials, there's various group within the VCCC, Peter, Mac, Monash partners, and so on, and so forth, where it's about that engagement with the consumer, or the patients and community, making sure people understand of what's involved in the trials, and so on, so forth. And so because, you know, the environment where clinical trials, it's been talked, quite openly and regularly, and there's a lot of support for that. And I should also, you know, big shout out to groups like BioMelbourne Network where they have that sort of engagement, you know, in terms of engaging with the community to talk about clinical trials, as well as AusBiotech and other groups as well. And so I do feel that there's that sense of the community understand what trial is, it's more about reaching out to various key stakeholders, and really engaged and getting the trials done, because quite frankly, for any startup, listening, thinking about running trials, first thing is you get over the regulatory hurdle, you get your R&D tax, and then it's the recruitment. So it's really the three R's people got to think about.
Dr Megan Robertson 18:10
There's also been a big shift recently to using digital tools like social media to improve recruitment. How's that going?
Tam Nguyen 18:17
Well yeah, I think social media, it's the engagement with the community, as I mentioned, the consumer, the patient, the community, and the ability to quite interestingly, you know, your first questions, it was the multicultural aspects of our community means you can translate studies in different languages and engage with their community in their own language. So there are a number of service provider groups out there. So one come to mind is Opyl, which is a company based here in Victoria, and their platform "Open" is actually the platform that you can actually engage and through that active recruitment, and it's really about driving that change and improve in the connection with the community because, you know, it's it's people and where I'm sitting, I see a lot of new technology coming in, but the ability to actually translate that, to engage with the consumer with the community, knowing that it's going to be exciting technology, but also how that's going to change their lives and you know, through better health outcome.
Dr Megan Robertson 19:28
I think that's a really important thing to highlight, isn't it? Clinical trials are the way we improve our health care. If we look back over the last 20 or 40 or 50 years, we can see really big changes for the better.
Tam Nguyen 19:45
Yes.
Dr Megan Robertson 19:45
In health care. And all of those changes. Come down to clinical trials where someone has done the research done the background had the bright idea, and clinical trials is getting that trend. insulated into action, so that we all get the benefit as a community. Now, Tam, you mentioned the R&D Tax Incentive.
Tam Nguyen 20:07
Yes.
Dr Megan Robertson 20:08
This always creates a bit of interest.
Tam Nguyen 20:10
Yeah.
Dr Megan Robertson 20:10
Tell me about that.
Tam Nguyen 20:11
Oh, well, when it comes to money, and you get rebate, that's definitely creating interest and and declare my, my potential conflict here I work as a resident director for Acclime Australia, which is a company based here in Melbourne, focusing on R&D tax, you know, supporting company to go through that process, essentially, a startup company, or you know, any company when you invest in your R&D activities in Australia and if your revenue is under $20 million Australian dollars, which most of the early stage company are, you get a rebate cash rebate of 43 and a half percent back. So essentially, if you invest a million dollar in your R&D activities, including clinical trials, by the way, because that's the another difference, because there are jurisdictions out there that have a similar R&D, but they don't include clinical trials. And so you definitely should look up and make sure you get all the facts, right. But essentially, you put in a million dollar on your R&D activities, including clinical trials, the costs of running it, you get $435,000. Back... Cash? Cash! Yeah. So that's pretty you know, a great incentive.
Dr Megan Robertson 21:29
And that comes back every year, as I understand it, so you don't even have to wait till the end of your trial.
Tam Nguyen 21:34
Correct.
Dr Megan Robertson 21:34
You can fund your ongoing trial.
Tam Nguyen 21:36
Yes.
Dr Megan Robertson 21:37
Partially.
Tam Nguyen 21:37
Yep.
Dr Megan Robertson 21:38
With your cash rebate?
Tam Nguyen 21:39
Yes. I mean, absolutely. Because what it means is that putting my investor hat on, what it means is that I invest a million dollars in a company, knowing that I will leverage about 43 and a half percent, cause you got to pay the tax agent, and so on and so forth. But you still get a decent at least 35% or more. So, as an investor, I put a million dollar in, I leveraged another 35% plus, on that investment,
Dr Megan Robertson 22:04
you have to be a registered company in Australia to access the R&D Tax Incentive, but an international company can set up a local company. How does that work?
Tam Nguyen 22:15
Absolutely, so so it's quite straightforward. What you need is you go through a process, whether it's Acclime, whether there's Prime, a number of company out there, who could set up that company structure for you, and it does require a local resident director. And you go through the process, which is so that you can sue the ATO the tax office to actually, you know, claim your R&D tax, and so on and so forth. You have an ABN as the Australian Business Number you for your company. And that's it, you're kind of ready to go once that done.
Dr Megan Robertson 22:48
Great. So funding for clinical trials, is always a stretch for any company. In Melbourne, can you access co-investment from either the government or VC funds? Are there are opportunities for getting co-investment in your research?
Tam Nguyen 23:04
Absolutely. So, so I'll start with the federal first. So there's the Medical Research Future Fund, so that's a $20 billion fund, over 10 years, I think we're halfway and the majority of that portion is supporting clinical trials. Now from the investment side, that's considered as non-diluted funding, essentially, there's no equity required for that locally in Victoria, we've got the Breakthrough Victoria Fund, which is a $2 billion fund over 10 years, and it just started this year. And health, life sciences one of the key five, five key pillars, so this money through the government, but also the local, I guess venture capital groups, the like of Brandon Capital here, there's also One Ventures. And the other one I should also mention before I forget is the actual interesting fund supported by the state government and two of the top university here Biocurate, supported by Melbourne and Monash University. So essentially, that's an early stage so that tend to be more on the, I think on the biotech side. But increasingly there are other funds out there, which traditionally been supporting on you know, FinTech or SAAS you know, software as a service, the likes of Blackbirds, AirTree so no conflict here...I don't work for them. In a local fund, which I work for is called Horizon 3 Biotech, which is more on the biotech side. But those companies as I mentioned, Blackbirds, AirTree, traditionally they've been invested also have Square Pegs as well which is based here in Victoria. supporting some of the unicorn like Canva which is like everyone know Canva and they make a lot of money by that's not in the healthtech medtech space. And all of a sudden, these company realised, actually, healthtech medtech is quite interesting to support and invest, you know, the return might not be 10x. But the impact on creating a better health outcome for patient I think that's, that's quite significant.
Dr Megan Robertson 25:20
So you've done your trial, you've got your data. Melbourne, and Australia in general are known for producing high quality data very reliable and robust. How does that go when you want to present it to other regulatory bodies such as the FDA and the EMA.
Tam Nguyen 25:39
So our data is widely regarded by international regulatory bodies, as you mentioned, through the FDA and EMA. So our data is, but actually, when I say our data been run, you know, through trials in Victoria, and part of part of Australia's, well, it's actually been used as part of their submission package to the FDA or the EMA. So we see a lot of company coming through. And, you know, not only from North America, but also part of Asia coming through to us running trials, because they know that, you know, when it comes to, I guess, the review of the data, the structure, the trial ecosystem we've got in place, it's hard to fault anything, so it's come back to that. The system been sort of, I guess, develop over decades and so it's all of that come in play. So that's why we've got all of the structures to support new company in early stage company running trials here. So you run trials, you get your data, and your trial data, and then you use that data to move on to your next phase. And that's always been, you know, a strong point from, from our perspective.
Dr Megan Robertson 26:54
I suppose that's what makes Melbourne in particular, very attractive for early phase trials. Because if you come to Melbourne, and you do your phase one trial here, you're first-in-man, that means that when you subsequently go to the FDA, or the IND, sorry, if you subsequently go to the FDA, or the EMA, their review of your drug actually has clinical data in the portfolio, which makes it a lot stronger going forward.
Tam Nguyen 27:23
Correct. And and similarly, on the medtech side devices as well, you know, you're capturing that data at the highest level already. And so it's been not rubber stamped, but you know, it's when you add the high level, it's a bit like you go with "A" team, then you get your "A" grade data, and you know, you're bound to move on to the next phase.
Dr Megan Robertson 27:44
And I certainly know, in digital health
Tam Nguyen 27:47
Yes.
Dr Megan Robertson 27:47
There are lots of companies that effectively use Australia as their sandbox
Tam Nguyen 27:53
Yes
Dr Megan Robertson 27:53
During their early development.
Tam Nguyen 27:55
Absolutely. So we got a lot of support for, I guess, in this space, where that clinical validation. So I guess some from St. Vincent's I can talk a bit about our involvement with the early stage company where people you know, I work with groups like ANDHealth, the Medtech Actuator, where, you know, early stage company wanting to talk to, let's say, they're part of their market, segment research, talk to PIs, or clinicians actually to get their view, but also running trials as well getting data to actually, you know, that proof of concept. So we've got that clear process and a lot of support in place means that a lot of early stage company, you know, don't spend a lot of time fumbling around looking for the right people, you know, for the right advice, and so and so forth. And, and, you know, our clinicians in general are very good at providing advice. Straight, honest advice. If it doesn't work, that doesn't work. So ahhhh.
Dr Megan Robertson 29:02
I think that's one thing Australia is known for. Frank and fearless advice.
Tam Nguyen 29:07
Yes.
Dr Megan Robertson 29:08
So Melbourne really is the home of health and medical research in Australia. Every year, we get between 45 and 50% of all the national funding for health and medical research. We've got a sector that includes about 150 public hospitals, over 161 private hospitals, we've got two of the leading universities in the world at both Monash and Melbourne University. So what you're describing, as we've said repeatedly, is a very strong, interlinked, well networked sector, that really punches well above its weight. A few years ago, you and me and our team were involved in the development of the Victorian Clinical Trials Gateway.Tell me about that.
Tam Nguyen 29:59
Yeah, well So if you look up victrials.com.au, and you find out what the site is about, and essentially it's a a portal, a one-stop-shop that we actually develop, I think was from BIO in San Diego, in San Francisco 2015, from memory. We were talking to, again, sort of the half-hour partnering meeting. And a lot of people say, what, you get R&D tax, and you only need to go through one IRB, or the ethics committee said, yeah, and we're there. We're asking for names of people, and so on, so forth. So we rely on our network. When we came back, when we spoke to the people from the Vic government saying, Can we do this, really a service directory portal, it's actually more than a service directory portal. It's it's a, it's a digital platform that links you directly to service provider. So that, you know, if you want to talk to an R&D company, so you can reach out to the team Acclime or Prime, and so on, so forth, directly, not, you know, info@, you get directly to the person, you need to, as well as sides, as well as other service provider that is supporting our wonderful eco, you know, clinical trials ecosystem. And then subsequently, the website was been translated into Mandarin, and Korean, to target at some of the Asian market that is actually interested in our clinical trials ecosystem. And so the site was developed lead by us, at St. Vincent's but put support of everyone from within the ecosystem, so strongly encourage you to reach out, have a look at the website, there's names there, if you if your company from Victoria, you're not on it reached out to us as well, you should be listed too. And so it's it's a, I suppose it's a digital collateral when we go overseas, promoting not only your company, but also our ecosystem. And so it's quite easy. So it's victrial.com.au, you jump on it, have a look at it, and talk to us.
Dr Megan Robertson 32:19
I always like to think of it as an introduction to clinical trials in Melbourne. Because as well as the directory, there's a lot of information about there about clinical trials. So there's there's links to standardised contracts, there's links to the R&D Tax Incentive information, there's links to the TGA, which is our FDA. So it's sort of "clinical trials 101".
Tam Nguyen 32:42
Yes.
Dr Megan Robertson 32:42
And in addition to that, there is a directory that helps you find the appropriate people to provide your support, and to get multiple quotes. So you know, if you want to look at setting up your own company, you might want to talk to two or three providers to see what the differences are. The Victorian Clinical Trials Gateway is a new digital portal for accessing clinical trial partners in Victoria. The aim of the gateway is to provide an introduction to clinical trials and enable you to connect to all of Victoria's clinical trials, services and sites in one place. So Tam, when we're traveling overseas, one thing Australians are used to, is the tyranny of distance with people saying "Oh, it's so far away". And yet, the people who come over here to do clinical trials, actually discover that's not the case at all. And it's a wonderful place to be. And what do you think recommend Melbourne to people, international people, coming here?
Tam Nguyen 33:58
Oh, absolutely. I mean, for us, you know, when we traveled to the West Coast in a 14 hour slots like nothing, when people would travel more than nine hours they complaining but, you know, Victoria is a place to conduct business, but also a wonderful place to visit as a tourist. You know, lots of positive about I mean, all the reasons we mentioned previously, I've do think that the distance is one thing but the time zone people used to working in different time zones. You know, I mean, I'm, I'm used to the West Coast, East Coast or the UK time, Asia time is, you know, quite straightforward as well. So I think, you know, there's a lot of scope for us, to, you know, a lot for us to offer. And absolutely, it's up to the individual to take that step and explore knowing that the whole ecosystem is based on decades of proven kind of business, build up for that. And of course, you know, we always want to talk about our coffee and all the wonderful sort of cuisine that we have here and I guess, Melbourne as a city to visit as a tourist as well.
Dr Megan Robertson 35:09
Yes, certainly coffee, food.
Tam Nguyen 35:10
Yeah.
Dr Megan Robertson 35:10
And then of course, we're surrounded by glorious wine zones.
Tam Nguyen 35:14
My apologies should not forget about that. And it's definitely a lot of wineries here.
Dr Megan Robertson 35:21
And so make sure you stay includes a weekend.
Tam Nguyen 35:23
Yeahhhh
Dr Megan Robertson 35:25
Okay, Tam, as a final question. If you could share one thing with the world about Victoria, Melbourne and clinical trials, what would it be?
Tam Nguyen 35:36
Actually wouldn't be one thing, but I'll do try my best. So Victoria is a place to do clinical trials. And the three R's I mentioned is the regulatory, the R&D, the recruitment, all of that comes down to the speed, the quality and the costs. So do come to Victoria.
Dr Megan Robertson 35:55
Thank you for that. It's been a great discussion, very illuminating, and thank you to you, our listeners. While we have spoken to tam today in depth, we'd like to thank the whole network and ecosystem, who we've consulted in the process of developing this podcast. I hope you've enjoyed what you've heard today. And if you're keen on more information, then check out the links and information in our show notes. And remember, Victoria is a great destination for all things Healthtech, we're open for business, and we're only an email or phone call away. I'm Dr. Megan Robertson. Join me for the next episode of Global Victoria Healthtech Talks.